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Knob Creek Area Residents voting to form Association

By Staff Reports

published: May 24 2007 08:17 PM updated:: June 04 2007 11:34 PM

North Knob Creek area residents gathered on May 24th to discuss and vote on forming a legal entity that would collectively represent the community's subdivisions and neighboring farms. After a presentation by Patrick Doyle, residents voted to form the North Knob Creek Association. Board members were selected from attendees, with each area being represented by at least one board member.

In attendance was about 100 residents of the area. County Commissioners representing the 9th District were invited, as was the optimist club. None were present. Further details will be on-line in the coming days and the full story will be in next weeks Seymour Herald print edition.

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User Comments

#1 Park? commented, on May 24, 2007 at 9:11 p.m.:

So does this mean that this group is against a park for our kids to play in?

#2 Statement commented, on May 24, 2007 at 10:39 p.m.:

The North Knob Creek Association is not against a community park for all families to enjoy. We wish for the County and the optimist club to join us in creating a community park that will have a play area, a walking track, pavilions for families and an area that can be enjoyed by all.

The current plan calls for a sports complex that employ stadium lighting, multiple baseball fields, a basketball court and a facility of some kind for indoor basketball. This is exclusive to kids and families that play baseball only. This was all predicated on Bower field being sold. In fact in a meeting with this organization, the Optimist club stated that Bower field has been for sale.

This evening, Benjamin Bower-Moore read a prepared statement from the family stating that the field and the surrounding land is not, never has been or ever will be for sale. He stated that this is a ballfield in perpetuity.

The kids will always have a place to play. There is also 8 undeveloped acres at the community park which would be perfect for ballfields.

We all have the community's best interest at heart, we just feel that this area would be better suited for a park that attracts families and provides an enhancement for the entire community, not just the baseball community.

#3 frustrated commented, on May 25, 2007 at 1:18 p.m.:

This is posted on the Moutain Press Website today. A quote from our fine commissioner Judy Godfrey:

"Commissioner Judy Godfrey, who lives in Seymour and attended the last session, said after the meeting she understands the park will be used only as a practice area and likely not have lights.

Patrick Doyle, who has helped organize the sessions, said Godfrey's statements to The Mountain Press contradict some she made in a previous meeting.

Doyle argues there was a lengthy discussion about the cost of lighting the field. Godfrey said the discussion was meant to show that lighting the field would be too expensive"

Does anyone else feel it is disingenuous for Ms. Godfrey to relay wrong information to the public like that? I've been at all the meetings and IT IS the intention of the Optimist club to have lights. They even know the brand name of the lights they intend to use. I just don't understand how Ms. Godfrey can sleep at night, giving out wrong information and misleading the public like that!

#4 Where's the support? commented, on May 25, 2007 at 1:44 p.m.:

The presence of local officials at the meeting last night shows how concerned they are for Seymour citizens.

#5 Interested commented, on May 25, 2007 at 1:47 p.m.:

Having heard the tapes of previous meeting, I know the pretense of leasing the 14 acres in question to the Optimist Club has been, from the outset, predicated on lies to those who express concern over the planned sports complex development. Judy Godfrey has made conflicting statements and the President of the Seymour Optimist Club along with some elected officials (Judy Godfrey and Buster Norton for instance) have been involved in a campaign of misinformation to the press from the outset. (Another term for misinformation is lying.) The North Knob Creek Community Association is for developing the 14 acres in question as a COMMUNITY PARK - without field lighting, with a walking track, picnic pavilions, a ballfield (which already exists), a football field (which already exists (although the optimists cut down the goal posts), perhaps a fenced dog park for animal lovers to play with their animals - all things the COMMUNITY could enjoy. The proximity of the 14 acres to the surrounding homes does NOT lend itself to permitting field lighting for night games and practices/tournaments and still allow the current homeowners to have the full enjoyment of their properties (not to mention a good nights' sleep) as they currently do under the proposed plan.

It has come time for the community to call for the resignation of Judy Godfrey and Buster Norton. Both of these Commissioners have violated the public trust with their misrepresentation of the truth and outright lies to the press and their constituents. It is time for the State of Tennessee to look into these politically inspired business dealings and pursue crimminal charges.

As a community the citizens of the District as a whole should begin now to seek to put someone else into these seats in the next election.

#6 quit whining commented, on May 26, 2007 at 8:33 a.m.:

in seymour we do not have a sports complex to incorperate all sports the kids who play baseball play at bower the kids who play soccer play at the horrible community park why not build a nice park for seymour soccer and baseball in seymour for our kids and a nice game fiel dfo reach too that way the travel teams will have a nice field to hoast from but i know they won't build soccer fields cause Gary won't let that happen

#7 What about the kids? commented, on May 26, 2007 at 10:01 a.m.:

The Knob Creek Community seems only interested in their own land values but not in the kids. Simular parks have been built into residental areas and been successful. This sports complex would allow a place for our future generation to learn good sportsmanship, teamwork, and most importantly the leadership abilities that will one day be required to lead our great nation.

The "Community" is in an uproar regarding field lighting but instead want to but in a fenced dog park? Hum, most games end shortly after 9p M-Th during the season and can run as late as 10p on Fridays. (I know this because I've been a parent at the field for years!!) A little extra lighting doesn't seem so bad when compaired to the smell that would be there by a dog park. Not all dog owners are responsible in the manner of cleaning up after their pets or the management of hostile dogs (ask the Knoxville down town residents). What will the community do when children get attacked by these animals?

The Seymour area is growing!!! With that growth, we are seeing more and more children in this area. With that growth, these children need a safe environment in which to play and the Optimist Club is doing just that. A walking track is in the plans (lighting will be needed along this walking area regardless of who's plan is successful for safety reasons), multiple ballfield areas, a UPDATED football area, an indoor basketball facility (a much needed addition). Regarding the building of soccer fields, has the soccer community approached the Optimist Club and presented a plan for the running and maintenance of this facility. No they have not. It takes money and people to make any park successful and as of to date the soccer community has not committed any money or people into the mix. The new facility is not just for "kids and families that play baseball" but for all to enjoy.

As for the statement regarding the sale of Bower Field, it is a lie. Considerations for this land were placed when researching the possibility for a shopping area simular to the Turkey Creek area. As for the ability to expand the existing park, the Optimist Club had attempted to prep the land to build additional fields and parking facilities (as our current arrangements are too small) but the work that was done was halted and they were told to clean it up or get out. Just ask the Knox County Parks and Recs because they assisted us in this endevor. Want to talk about misinformation, ask the Bower family about their committment to their families legacy.

The Knob Creek Community is unwilling to work with the Optimist Club in providing a safe environment for our children but instead want to look out for their own property values. Recheck the tapes for the comments about not being able to resale homes at the values they expect.

#8 to # 7 commented, on May 26, 2007 at 2:19 p.m.:

Since you have decided to tell us that we are only interested in our "land values" let me tell you what the interest of your optimist club is.
1). Each Kid pays a league fee.
2). Each kid pays for their uniform.
3). Knox. County maintains the fields.
4). The Optimist "Club" charges $10 per person at tournaments thus taking in between $6,000 and $10,000 per weekend, CASH!
5). A prominent member of the Optimists "clubs'" wife runs the concessions...CASH

How dare you say we don't care about the children when most of have children in the primary and intermediate schools. That is exactly why we don't want all of your cars on our road.

Your beloved Optimist "Club" is a small circle of people (5 active members, maybe) that are bringing in A LOT of cash. Ever seen a deposit slip? Ever seen a financial report? Did you know they are a 501c3 corporation thus cannot show a profit?

So think about this next time your team has to have a fundraiser in order to play in a tournament. Where is all that cash going? Next time think it through before you decide to come at us with a charge of greed over land values.

By the way, unless you are a member of the Bower family, you have zero (0) credibility in discussing their business dealings.

#9 to #8 commented, on May 26, 2007 at 4:09 p.m.:

The tournaments held at the field are not put on by the Optimist Club. They are put on by teams to raise money so that they don't have to pay for uniforms and any team equipment needed. The Optimist Club does not charge anyone to park. The Optimist does not pocket that money. The league fee helps to pay for referee's and if I am not mistaken part of it also goes to the county. Referee's make anywhere from $15 to $22.50 per game. There are usually 2 referee's per game. The Optimist club has more than 5 members. I am sure if you are interested in going to Bower Field and joining the Optimist Club and giving of your time freely they would be happy to have you! The reason they are so small is there are not many people who will donate that much time. It takes lots of time to run a ball field and prepare it each night for little kids to enjoy. People want to fuss but no one wants to work and especially not for free!!!
Just to make sure #8 you understand... The Optimist does not put on tournaments nor does it charge anyone to park at the field. That is strictly put on by the teams.

#10 Agree W/#9 commented, on May 26, 2007 at 5:10 p.m.:

The only tournaments that the Optimist Club host are the pre-season and Post-season tournaments and the monies earned from that tournament are returned to the teams. Don't believe us then ask any coach. This amounts to about $400-$700 per team (depending on the year). Optimist club members are not paid for their time so all monies brought into the field are used for the field. This includes all the repairs (no Knox County doesn't pay for this), electricity, water, trash pick up, replacement bases, replacement lights, repair of the tractor that preps the fields for play. In regards to the fees that are charged, you may check with the Parks and Recs department and confirm that a LARGE(and I mean LARGE) portion of the fees is for the insurance for each player. My child does not pay for their uniform. If the coaches/parents are unable to raise money from sponsorships then it is only right for a player to contribute to the cost of a uniform. Have you seen the prices for uniforms, balls, bats, helmets, etc, lately? If not then check it out and understand why some teams host tournament. I also know for FACT that $6000 to $10000 is not made in a weekend. By the time, the umps are paid, and all expenses taken care of THEN some teams can earn $3000 to $4000. Tournament fees range from $100 to $500 to compete in plus at least 2 new balls must be supplied. A dozen balls can cost $30-$70.
Yes, Knox County maintains the field in the means of the mowing, however field maintenance is done by the field director. This includes dragging the fields, lining the fields, being responsible for any injuries/accidents, ect. I've ran the concession stand before and I'm telling what "Cash" the workers earn are not equal to the time of shopping for supplies, being there 1-2 hours before games start to have the food ready, and staying 30min-1 hour after to clean up. Plus keeping the restrooms stocked and in some what working order(if people would quit flushing items that aren't meant to be flushed then this would be easier.)You think its so easy and the "Cash" pay is great, how about working sometime. How do I know this? I am a PROUD Optimist Club member's wife. I donate my time to the kids, do you????

#11 sad commented, on May 26, 2007 at 6:06 p.m.:

real optimists would support the Knob Creek residents in their request to work with them to develop a community park for all.

#12 #11 commented, on May 26, 2007 at 6:29 p.m.:

Knob Creek is wanting a community park that will comply with their community only and not benefit all of Seymour, where as the Optimist Club is helping kids from Knox., Sevier, and Blount Co.

#13 Parks or Perks?? commented, on May 26, 2007 at 7:12 p.m.:

If our county had a parks and recreation department like most other counties have - you all wouldn't have to be arguing all these points. Why does one of the most affluent counties in the state NOT have a parks dept? It is all in the priorities of the county commission. There is plenty of money in this county but most of it goes to support the tourist industry, NOT the locals. Ask yourself, What do you get for your tax dollars besides a commission that won't listen to you?

#14 to #11 commented, on May 26, 2007 at 9:43 p.m.:

Real Optimist??

#15 Optimists=Commissioners commented, on May 26, 2007 at 11:16 p.m.:

Your Optimists and our Commissioners have told so many different stories that any creditbility is shot! Having read all the previous posts, I think you should speak to the parents of Gary Raders' team. There are some that can't stand him. Word has it that he lost control of his temper this past week on (2) ten year olds and a coach. Way to show that Optimist Creed! It is about the kids my eye. If it was, the President of the Optimist club wouldn't be screaming at ten year olds.

No thanks, we would rather have someone a little more rational around our kids. You want them to put up a couple of lights in your back yard? Have at it!! Open your eyes, you are being led around like sheep by those men.

#16 to #7 commented, on May 27, 2007 at 7:56 a.m.:

I can't believe you are comparing a private, gated 14 acres sports complex built in the middle of a residential area to a possible, small area for dogs to play in? You're making it sound like a 14 acrea dog park is being built! That's stretching it a bit, don't you think? Nice try! I found that so ridiculous I started laughing at that post! Now, will people please READ and UNDERSTAND that the community has no problem with a real community park being added to that area! A place where all kids and families can play, relax and enjoy! The only thing not wanted in that area is another BOWER FIELD! And if all of you, who don't live in that area, are telling us you would welcome that kind of sports complex in your backyard.. YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE!! You just have the luxory of sitting back in your non-affected house and pass judgement on the residents. Walk a while in their shoes before you pass judgement on them!

#17 TBI? commented, on May 27, 2007 at 1:44 p.m.:

Has the TBI been contacted about this? The governor has a new ethics commission. Have they been notified?

What does County Mayor Waters and his new ethics committee have to say about having a ball park ram rodded through?

#18 TBI Basis? commented, on May 27, 2007 at 2:07 p.m.:

I'm not sure there is a clear case of anything illegal being done here. At best, we are looking at sunshine law violations and from looking at the events in Knox County it'll take private citizens bringing the case against the violators. I really doubt the Gov, TBI or even your beloved Sen. Finney has any interest in this, much less the 'ability' to do anything about it. The bottom line is that local people have to deal with local problems. If you can't convince your elected officials to bend your way then vote them out or quit sniping over it.

#19 to #15 and #16 commented, on May 27, 2007 at 3:51 p.m.:

Sevier Co. has made this an public land park and therefore it can not become a "private, gated 14 acres sports complex". If that had been the plan then a citizen could have bought the land and developed it. A "real community park", there's already a Seymour community park and look what has happened to it without someone to truely stand behind it and maintain it. Who's going to support and maintain the "community park" that the Knob Creek residents want? Not Sevier Co., that's why they leased the land to the Optimist Club.
Trust me when I say that if I had the land and money for personnel use, my husband would build a ball park on that property!!!!!!!!! That's not being a hypocrite, that's just enjoying a game, and supporting our future players.
All everyone can talk about is Gary Rader. Has anyone been to the ballfield and seen all the coaches/parents? Police have been called due to PARENTS fighting over t-ball games. These are 5-6 year old kids playing games. Coaches have been banned because of use of inappropriate languages and behaviors but I don't see anyone mentioning their names. Get off Gary's back (like I'm sure that you've never yelled at your kids before) and get by his side and support what is right for the kids. Anyone who knows me, knows that I don't get "lead around" but instead lead others by positive example.

#20 You don't get it 19 commented, on May 27, 2007 at 5:55 p.m.:

Your post is exactly why we don't want it. We are a community that does not want the lights, the noise, the police etc. We are not a commercial area, we are a quiet residential area. Yelling at kids is not acceptable by any coach period! As someone who has coached kids in every sport, I have never once said anything to demean a child. What Gary Rader did last week was demeaning! He broke kids spirits and their parents hearts. Is that the type of person you want leading your kids? By the tone of your post, it is exactly what you want.

Gary Rader stated specifically that this "ball field complex" would have fencing around it to keep people out when it wasn't being used for ball games. Sounds exclusive to me. Having you regurgitate the optimist's rhetoric is being thrown at deaf ears. We no longer believe anything you people say. Want to be an example, stand up for what is right in Seymour and get rid of commissioners that don't represent the people.

#21 Good for you # 20 commented, on May 27, 2007 at 7:08 p.m.:

#19... you really don't get it at all! I'm glad I don't have you for a parent if you are condoning Mr. Radar's behavior.

#22 Fed Up in Seymour commented, on May 27, 2007 at 11:59 p.m.:

Buster Norton and Judy Godfrey are pitiful representation of the 9th District, or any district for that matter. Buster, Judy - We want you out of the 9th District as our representatives. You didn't have the courage to attend the meeting because you know too many people know that you have lied about the land usage. You have betrayed the voter's confidence with your lies and lack of concern unless it profited you. Seymour Community will not stand by and allow you to proceed as you have done in the past - with a free hand. You will be held accountable.

#23 Steve Green commented, on May 28, 2007 at 10:19 p.m.:

I have a solution to everybody's issues with the property, there is 150+ acres for sale on Boyds Creek, somebody loan me $5 million and I'll build a park for soccer, baseball, football, and i'll even find an area for dogs to crap in peace.

#24 re:Steve commented, on May 29, 2007 at 7:45 a.m.:

sounds like a great solution but I just don't see the Knob Creek residence giving money over to get rid of a "sports complex". They won't even volunteer to help out with the centers in which their children play now. Just ask the Optimist Club, soccer leagues, and the basketball leagues.

#25 to # 24 commented, on May 29, 2007 at 8:32 a.m.:

What's that old saying... "glass houses"?.. Just how much have you "volunteered" to help out? Hmmm. Put up, or shut up!

#26 Are you Sure #24? commented, on May 29, 2007 at 11:12 a.m.:

I would going to start this out nice but you have shown your ignorance and once again discredited any argument you may have had. There were parents who volunteered their time for a tournament basketball team this past season. First Baptist soccer league is run, coached and refereed by numerous families from our area. There is another parent that has volunteered every year for soccer, hockey, basketball etc. Every parent up there volunteers for field trips, classroom projects etc. It is amazing that all of you armchair pundits know how people on Knob Creek live. Maybe you should concern yourselves with your own lives. Do you even know anyone who lives there?

#27 Jim Green commented, on May 29, 2007 at 11:39 a.m.:

Re: The land at Smokey Crossing

Commissioner Buster Norton told a Sentinel reporter that this land has been considered a park for ten years is trying to mislead the people again! How could it be a park, no public could use this field, thats all it is, a field. This field was in a gated complex for the use of the people who lived in this locked complex and you have to know the combination to get in. He also forgot to tell the reporter that we have a park less than half a mile away from this land that has had very little support from the county. It still has eight acres that needs to be developed so why not give this half finished local park which has been in Seymour for more than twenty years a helping hand instead of taking on another fourteen acres from a private person? The county has always atated they are not in the parks department so this begs the question, why take on more land when you are not interested in parks?

By the way, I maintain the Seymour Community Park.

#28 Parks department? commented, on May 29, 2007 at 12:02 p.m.:

Why doesn't Sevier County have a parks department? Most counties of this size and with the money made off of development provide park services for their citizens.

How about a parks department for our kids?

#29 Why bother commented, on May 29, 2007 at 5:30 p.m.:

A parks department will only offer another 5 or 6 jobs to the Mayor's and the commissioners relatives. They need more than that...like another road commission or a cake job like being a sheriffs deputy. Where else can you make money hanging out at Pilot or Citgo? There isn't enough money in it for them to bother.

#30 #26 commented, on May 29, 2007 at 8:30 p.m.:

I sure do know some families that live in the Knob Creek Community and they are truely lovely people that I won't bad mouth. Some of these same people talked to the Optimist Club members in OCTOBER about the plans but you say that the community didn't know anything about this. OCTOBER!!!!!!
As far as displaying my ignorance, how about the Knob Creeks ignorance in what the Optimist club truely wants to do and that they want the community's input (in a productive manner and not arguementative). Has anyone approached Gary Rader or any other Optimist member and told them what the Knob Creek Community really wants? No, the only things said have been in harsh, arguementative tones. A walking path is in the plans, a picnic pavalin, and a play ground are also listed. If the community would like to see a dog park then ask them and see if it could be worked out.
I've asked the Optimist Club officers if they got an invite to your meeting, and no one was called and invited them. Besides that, if they had been invited, your meeting was on a Thursday night and we are playing ball games on Thursday.

#31 to #30 commented, on May 30, 2007 at 9:18 a.m.:

Gary Radar has been invited over and over again, but he would be hearing the same things.. the community doesn't want a private, gated complex for use only by the Optimists. Have you asked Gary about that? If he denies it, he is on tape stating just that fact. He's also on tape discussing the proposed lighting etc.
And as for Thursday night.. there wasn't one single game being played on Bower's field that evening. Do that play somewhere else as well? If so, why then do they want Knob Creek too?
You need to get your facts straight!

#32 west knox native commented, on May 30, 2007 at 1:24 p.m.:

knob creek folks need to move to west knoxville a better fit

#33 to #31 commented, on May 30, 2007 at 6:28 p.m.:

Maybe your confused as to where Bower Field is... my child had a game that night!

Why would Gary want to come to a meeting with 30 plus people who are on the opposite side as the Optimist just to be yelled at like before at the other meeting. It was not conducted very well. I was there on neutral ground. I live in the K Creek community. I am not sure I want fields there either however I think i appoach it with a more mature attitude than most of you. Maybe if it was civilized with mediator's... I thought it was big of him to show up at the first meeting knowing what opposition he would be against.

#34 sure commented, on May 30, 2007 at 7:12 p.m.:

Real big of him to stand there and tell everyone in attendance " I don't care" if the community doesn't want the sports complex! Really big of him!

#35 #33 commented, on May 30, 2007 at 9:01 p.m.:

BRAVO TO YOU!!!!!!!!! Maybe you should at least be in some leadership role for the community.
Maybe #31 needs to get their facts straight. Why would anyone want to go to a "meeting" when they know it's only a head hunt and not a productive session? The K Creek Community may not have said "I don't care" but their actions (ie: no calm interactions with the commissioner or with Gary) are saying just the same thing. Kinda like a spoiled child having a temper tantrum when not getting their way.

#36 to #35 commented, on May 31, 2007 at 8:17 a.m.:

Most children simply mimic what their being taught as an example. From what I saw, Mr. Radar is a bad example!

#37 to #36 commented, on May 31, 2007 at 6:20 p.m.:

Some of the parents in your community can be considered "bad example" by that standard. Why would you expect someone to continue to attend these "meetings" when nothing gets done except name calling and yelling?

#38 I care commented, on May 31, 2007 at 7:02 p.m.:

Everyone not for the complex needs to contact the national optomist club and tell them . If the yelling story is true there needs to be a new president of the club : that is not how you help young people. As for paying concession workers and feild directors clubs like the optomist are volunteer groups. Volunteers do not get paid! As for yelling at the meetings, it shows the frustrations of hundreds of residents caused by the optomist club! Let the national leaders know how this small branch is harming the reputation of their organization...I know i am. Finally where is the $ trail. There has to be records and recipts if not this is a serious matter more so than any one realizes. If $1 went anywhere but to th kids or scholarships action must be taken! I heard the guys pushing for the complex were terrible athletes and wanted to be known as jocks by building a park. Grow up!

#39 to #38 commented, on May 31, 2007 at 9:21 p.m.:

If you really "care" so much about children than get off your lazy buttocks and rake a field, mow grass between the fields, pick up litter or do anything that is going to help instead of hinder. Also field directors and concession stand workers do get paid at other Knox County fields. My nephew worked concessions, picked up litter etc. at Fountain City Park and was paid an hourly wage.

#40 John Boles commented, on May 31, 2007 at 9:39 p.m.:

I have no dog in this fight. But your comments make me laugh it's like you are crying to your mommy. Worry about your commisioners and not a field that has given kids joy for 40 + years. The Lord would not want you all acting this way. Your comments, most of them, are juvinile. GROW UP! Take this matter up with your county be it good or bad. But leave the kids and their families out of it!!

Joe be a real man and tell the whole story not one side. I don't even know the whole story but I certainly am smart enough to see it's a one sided tale. If you want to be a newspaper man then you must act like one and tell the whole truth not your truth!

#41 to #40 commented, on May 31, 2007 at 9:53 p.m.:

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!!

#42 to #38 commented, on May 31, 2007 at 11:20 p.m.:

I really hope that your face is really red about now. Want to talk about something else you don't know about?

As far as the "guys pushing for the complex" being "terrible athletes", my husband is one of these guys, and he was all city baseball, played college ball, and tried out for the Atlanta Braves. I wouldn't call him a "terrible athlete", I call him a hero for using his skills and knowledge to teach the next generation!!!!!!!!!!! Alot of the coaches/parents etc., have played before and done very well. Quit insulting people that you don't know!!!!

#43 Ethics? commented, on June 7, 2007 at 7:35 a.m.:

If anyone is interested in cleaning up what's been going on round here, ask the ethics panel to investigate.

good old boys
backroom deals
family hiring family
commissioners backgrounds
voting on things that make them money
signing contracts without telling people
lying about what thier doing.

call or write somebody to complain and ask for fair treatment!